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View Full Version : The Solusandra Issue (Spoilers for The First and Solus)



Meteoro
10-03-2004, 05:15 PM
Of course, if you’re reading this thread, you know you’re going to get spoiled on the Solus and The First books if you didn’t read the end of them, so keep reading at your own risk and don’t sue me later. *:P

Okay, here’s the deal: *the First was a race created as toys by Solusandra and I think it’s time our characters face this revelation. *At this point, we solved many of the things that were left open when Crossgen *went down *:cry:, things like the Negation War and some of its ramifications. *The only one thing left is the “toy” issue. *If we approach it, we would be really moving forward, assuming the whole CG Universe as our own, since it no longer exists elsewhere.

Of course, I’ll go with majority, so, thoughts?

8) M 8)

Qwaring
10-03-2004, 05:36 PM
Qwaring knows all about that. He gained that information when he bartered with Danik.

Q doesn't care because the origin of him, Banter and his parents is different than most First. I'm not sure if I can go into too many details, so let's just say that Q knows he isn't a toy. He just works with toys. ;)

And QC#1 will prefer to be called an action figure. :p

So I'm all for the revalation. That is after things have calmed down on Elysia first.

Jason Sanborn
10-03-2004, 08:23 PM
I agree with Q. Probably won't have much bearing on Jas, though. He is strong enough to know he is his own person. So what if his ancestors were created? :whaat:

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 09:52 AM
I had an idea that would explain the differences between the CG RP universe and the CG comic universe. I haven't read all of the issues of Solus, but from what I've read Solusandra was working alone when she created the First (or possibly with Danik). But what if out RP First are so different than their comicbook counterparts because their Solusandra wasn't alone. What if she had other atlanteans creating toys with her. This could also explain the existance of the old gods, who might have been prototypes for the First. It would also explain how many of the First became infused with the power and minds of the olympians and the titans, one of the atlanteans was reusing his/her old toys in the creation of the new.

Jason Sanborn
10-22-2004, 09:55 AM
Or, perhaps, other Atlanteans or "Ancient Gods" tampered with the First after Solusandra created them. Sure she was the original creator of the toys, but other kids came along and played with the toys or even stole the toys for their own benefit. ;)

Meteoro
10-22-2004, 10:03 AM
I love Qwaring's idea!!!! *:clap: *It would explain the whole Titan/Olympians deal and make the whole thing thing totally consistent. *Yay!

Jas's idea is also doable. *:thumleft: *It doesn't contradict Q's. *;)

8) M 8)

Tigers
10-22-2004, 10:09 AM
I was kicking around this idea with Brynhild, but my train of thought with that is that they were Atlanteans that existed after the time of the transition.
Remember that the Earth moved on without the Atlanteans because of the effect of the transition, and that there where Atlanteans that had separated from their people.
It could be that Brynhild and some of the older gods and goddesses where actually Atlanteans that have forgotten about their past! That's just my take on the idea. ;)

Tigers
10-22-2004, 10:36 AM
:think: *:ermm:

No one have any input on my idea?! :eh:

Jason Sanborn
10-22-2004, 10:37 AM
Or maybe they didn't forget about their past, just they don't acknowledge their past. :whaat:

Meteoro
10-22-2004, 10:39 AM
Personally, I like Bryn being a valkyrie. *Turning her into an Atlantean would change her character a little too much and even mix her with Tigs. *I think both of them work nice and their differences are great. *:whaat: *My two cents. *

8) M 8)

Tigers
10-22-2004, 10:42 AM
Okay, here's an idea! Let's leave them be. We can say that without the guidance of the Atlanteans, these gods and goddesses just came to be. That way they stand alone from the two groups. They're not Atlanteans and they aren't Firsts or created by either! ;)

Qwathings
10-22-2004, 10:44 AM
Jas's idea also makes sense, so lets use it.


I was kicking around this idea with Brynhild, but my train of thought with that is that they were Atlanteans that existed after the time of the transition.
Remember that the Earth moved on without the Atlanteans because of the effect of the transition, and that there where Atlanteans that had separated from their people.
It could be that Brynhild and some of the older gods and goddesses where actually Atlanteans that have forgotten about their past! That's just my take on the idea. ;)
Each pantheon could have been an atlantean that broke up into aspects, like Danik has done. This way they aren't as powerful as an atlantean would be. They'd be more powerful than a First, just like they are considered now. But over time some of these aspects became independant and tried to remain free when the Atlanteans were done playing with the old god toys. Once the atlanteans became tired of playing with the old gods they would have tried to draw all of their aspects back into themselves. A lot of the old gods made their RP appearance after being awakened from some kind of slumber, so they could have placed themselves into stasis in order to escape being merged back into their atlantean creators. And others could have had enough will power to escape after being merged and enter the First (like the olympians and titans). And over time they forgot their origins, like you suggested.

Qwathings
10-22-2004, 10:49 AM
Personally, I like Bryn being a valkyrie. Turning her into an Atlantean would change her character a little too much and even mix her with Tigs. I think both of them work nice and their differences are great. :whaat: My two cents.

8) M 8)


Okay, here's an idea! Let's leave them be. We can say that without the guidance of the Atlanteans, these gods and goddesses just came to be. That way they stand alone from the two groups. They're not Atlanteans and they aren't Firsts or created by either! ;)
With my revised idea they could be independant. After thousands of years seperated from their source they would have evolved into what they currently are. Besides not all of the old gods were directly created from an atlantean. The old gods would have created their own offspring. According to myths the titans and olympians would were born from the mating of Uranus and Gaea (sp?). What if just Uranus and Gaea were aspects of the atlantean.

Jason Sanborn
10-22-2004, 10:54 AM
I like Q's idea of the mythos. The original "gods" were the aspects of the Atlanteans that, through reproduction and later creations created the pantheon of gods.

Therefore, you have:

The Atlanteans
Aspects of the Atlanteans
The Old Gods (Possibly aspects themselves)
The First (Created by Solusandra, later manipulated by others)
The Mythological Gods
The Mythological Demigods

Also thrown in there are Sigil Bearers, First-Endowed, half-Gods (Hercules), and the like.

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 11:00 AM
Or to embellish my olympian example, Gaia (Earth) was born from Chaos without a mate, along with Eros and Tartarus. Then from Gaia came Uranus (Heaven or Sky) which gave us Heaven and Earth. And then from Gaia and Uranus came the six original titans. And the process continued until we have the olympian pantheon.

So Chaos is an atlantean, since he's the source of the Olympians.

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 11:09 AM
I've been looking through http://www.pantheon.org/ and from what I can tell the Norse pantheon began with a cow named Audhumla.
Uhm, I'll leave the origins of the Norse up to someone who can make sense of it. :?

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 11:13 AM
Or maybe it began with Ymir. :scratch:

Jason Sanborn
10-22-2004, 11:28 AM
Looks like both started the Norse lines. So perhaps it could be two different Atlanteans. And how a cow fits in, maybe the "sigil" of the Atlantean was a cow? :whaat:

Sadeh
10-22-2004, 01:25 PM
I love the ideas!!!! *Way cool thinking, guys!!! *:thumbup:

So, Chaos is the Atlantean that created Uranus and Geaia! *Cool! *Then came the Titans and the Olympians. *Way cool!

Now everything comes together. *:mrgreen:

8) M 8)

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 01:33 PM
Now we need everyone elses opinion on the matter.

Brynhild
10-22-2004, 02:39 PM
Well, you have my vote for this! It helps to keep things separate and draws a nice neat tie to them all! *;)

Mattson
10-22-2004, 02:46 PM
I've always seen Odin and Loki as being much like the Americian Gods versions of themselves. They started where their beleif started. They traveled or were reborn where their beleif spread. They gamed with their fellows over the lives of men. However, without such beleif, they slept. When the Old Gods awoke, Odin and Loki were remembered and that allowed them to return. I see their power as beleif=strength.

If the Atlanteans were involved, maybe it was an experiment that was presumed failed but succeeded after their vanishing.

Daveosaurus
10-22-2004, 04:03 PM
I've been looking through http://www.pantheon.org/ and from what I can tell the Norse pantheon began with a cow named Audhumla.
Uhm, I'll leave the origins of the Norse up to someone who can make sense of it. :?

You think that's weird, you haven't seen the Polynesian ones yet.

Although the local version isn't weird so much as R-rated. And probably a textbook example of how having children causes problems in relationships.

As for the toy business. Never having read "The First" and it being a long time since I read "Solus" (and never in publication order) I don't quite understand the ramifications of this... but it seems (please correct me if I am wrong) the First are self-aware and have free will: they may have been toys once, but they are free beings of an uncertain nature now.

And I suspect if Solusandra tries to lay claim to this particular bunch of "toys", there's going to be a bit of butt-kicking going on... for example, even though I don't have any First characters, one of my characters would stand against Solusandra if she tried anything against the orphans at Sil's orphanage, and another would be keen to ex-ter-mi-nate anything that tried to kidnap its new friends (after subjecting said kidnapper to the appropriate amount of mockery...)

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 07:24 PM
I've always seen Odin and Loki as being much like the Americian Gods versions of themselves. They started where their beleif started. They traveled or were reborn where their beleif spread. They gamed with their fellows over the lives of men. However, without such beleif, they slept. When the Old Gods awoke, Odin and Loki were remembered and that allowed them to return. I see their power as beleif=strength.

If the Atlanteans were involved, maybe it was an experiment that was presumed failed but succeeded after their vanishing.Each pantheon would have been created by a different Atlantean, and so the Norse could be different than the other old gods. So you and Tigers (Brynhild) can figure out the specifics of the Norse pantheon since the two of you RP the characters.

Although according to myth Odin slew Ymir and used his corpse to create the sky, earth and everthing else, so what if this means that Odin and co. killed their Atlantean (Ymir) and used his power to create Asgard. Without an Atlantean they would have to find a new source of renewable power, which would explain the dependance on belief.
Or whatever you come up with.

Qwaring
10-22-2004, 07:32 PM
As for the toy business. Never having read "The First" and it being a long time since I read "Solus" (and never in publication order) I don't quite understand the ramifications of this... but it seems (please correct me if I am wrong) the First are self-aware and have free will: they may have been toys once, but they are free beings of an uncertain nature now.

And I suspect if Solusandra tries to lay claim to this particular bunch of "toys", there's going to be a bit of butt-kicking going on... for example, even though I don't have any First characters, one of my characters would stand against Solusandra if she tried anything against the orphans at Sil's orphanage, and another would be keen to ex-ter-mi-nate anything that tried to kidnap its new friends (after subjecting said kidnapper to the appropriate amount of mockery...)
The First believe themselves to be the first beings to be born during the creation of the universe. According to them they created the planets, stars and everything else. They are all powerful, or at least that's what they believe.

Solusandra created them as toys. Playthings. And to her they are. She has the power to treat the First as toys. In the comic, when she visited Elysia she was literally tossing the First around as if they were nothing.

Aliexster
10-22-2004, 08:09 PM
I'm for this, it seems alright, but I do have to agree that they are independant beings who have long ago broken the bonds betwen their creators.

I just have to say one thing, who will be doing the Egyptian pantheon? That and would the same person who made the Norse one do the Egyptian one, because it's already been established Anubis and Fenris are brothers. So are they creations of the particular pantheon's patrons or are they something like rouges made by a thrid party?

Fetch
10-22-2004, 08:31 PM
I'm for this, it seems alright, but I do have to agree that they are independant beings who have long ago broken the bonds betwen their creators.

I just have to say one thing, who will be doing the Egyptian pantheon? That and would the same person who made the Norse one do the Egyptian one, because it's already been established Anubis and Fenris are brothers. So are they creations of the particular pantheon's patrons or are they something like rouges made by a thrid party?I guess M would get the chance to come up with the Egyptian pantheon, since he RP's Anubis.

And it's up to you and M to decide how your characers fit in. Whatever works best for you guys. Although cross breeding between pantheons wouldn't be out of the question (just ask Mill). Or trading between pantheons could also be the cause.

Nestlé
10-22-2004, 11:45 PM
I agree you guys!!!
This is an awesome idea.

It of course doesn't answer EVERY question in our universe, like the existence of The Oracle and Levi, or the sword bearers like TVL and I... *(But they're not meant to be understood yet. ;) )

Sadeh
10-23-2004, 02:03 PM
I love it, this whole thing is coming together. *Kudos to Qwaring and everyone! *:thumbup:

Joe, I think we could start planning the origin of the Egyptian pantheon, let’s chat about it while I’m at work :mrgreen:. *By the way, I was thinking on bringing the Furry Mother ;). *Since my werewolves mention her so much and I also noticed Isianu doing it, I think it would a must to create her. *Once we figure her out, we could create a shared account to use her every now and then. *I’m mentioning the Furry Mother in here since I think it would be nice to tie her origin to the Egyptian myths.

By the way, Qwaring mentioned that Chaos, the head of the Greek pantheon, could be an Atlantean. *I really like this idea and I already have an idea for her. *Yes ;), I would like to make Chaos a her. *Does that work for anyone? *Or someone else is also really interested in creating this Atlantean character?

8) M 8)

Daveosaurus
10-23-2004, 04:59 PM
Hmmm... I wouldn't mind a quick run-down on the history etc. of the Furry Mother once you've got her figured out... while I've been going with my own ideas on werewolves independently of anyone else (and covering it with the notion that there are different breeds and species of werewolves throughout the universe) I've been thinking about ideas on how to bring Eldon's planet's werewolves into the greater universe...

Mattson
10-24-2004, 04:29 AM
I've always seen Odin and Loki as being much like the Americian Gods versions of themselves. They started where their beleif started. They traveled or were reborn where their beleif spread. They gamed with their fellows over the lives of men. However, without such beleif, they slept. When the Old Gods awoke, Odin and Loki were remembered and that allowed them to return. I see their power as beleif=strength.

If the Atlanteans were involved, maybe it was an experiment that was presumed failed but succeeded after their vanishing.Each pantheon would have been created by a different Atlantean, and so the Norse could be different than the other old gods. So you and Tigers (Brynhild) can figure out the specifics of the Norse pantheon since the two of you RP the characters.

Although according to myth Odin slew Ymir and used his corpse to create the sky, earth and everthing else, so what if this means that Odin and co. killed their Atlantean (Ymir) and used his power to create Asgard. Without an Atlantean they would have to find a new source of renewable power, which would explain the dependance on belief.
Or whatever you come up with.

Q, taking a small and rather 'Empire'-ish twist on that, would work very very well. Imagine if the World Tree was a giant power distrubutor to Odin the the Norse pantheon and at its roots being used as a half living battery was Ymir. With that, Odin would need a being of great power to fuel his new Asgard or try to find an alternative source of power.

Meteoro
10-24-2004, 07:41 AM
Dave: *I’m going to add you to my MSN. *Feel free to do the same. *Since you’re also playing a hand in the werewolf thing, you’re totally welcome to join this discussion. *:mrgreen: *Now that I think of it, there are other players that have played Werewolves and should be invited. *:shocked: *I think I better start a new thread for Werewolf Players ;).

By the way, I think it would be the best to start also another OOC thread stating the new ideas about the pantheons. *This one started as a discussion about Solusandra and I think the subject was already covered :whaat:. *I would change the title, but the original subject would be lost among the pantheons stuff and I think it would be nice having this thread floating around just in case anyone wonders how we’re dealing with Solusandra’s revelation. *So, Q, since you started the great ideas about the pantheons and the Atlanteans, would you like to start that new thread?

Finally, I already have an avatar that I’m aching to use. *She would be the Atlantean that created Gea and Uranus, resulting in the creation of the Titans and then the Olympians. *She would be Chaos ;). *Here’s the avatar:
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Meteoro-Atlantean.jpg
Feel free to object. *;)

8) M 8)

Qwaring
10-24-2004, 03:03 PM
Sorry I hijacked your thread, M. I didn't know where to put my idea and since this thread was already discussing Solusandra it seemed like the best place to test everyone's reaction to the idea.

I just posted a new thread for my idea.

Daveosaurus
10-24-2004, 03:29 PM
Dave: Im going to add you to my MSN. Feel free to do the same.

*:oops: * I would if I knew how... * *:oops: *The only people I've managed to get on my MSN are people who put me on first because there's some way of telling the computer to reciprocate when people do that...


Since youre also playing a hand in the werewolf thing, youre totally welcome to join this discussion. :mrgreen: Now that I think of it, there are other players that have played Werewolves and should be invited. :shocked: I think I better start a new thread for Werewolf Players ;).

I've got a couple of thoughts on the matter at hand and will have a go at setting them down fairly soonish...

Mattson
10-24-2004, 03:49 PM
Dave, click on the little MSN on someone's posts. That will show you their MSN e-mail. Then hit Contacts on your MSN. Add a contact. Click create a new Contact. Copy/paste the e-mail.

Daveosaurus
10-24-2004, 04:00 PM
* brain melts *

Remember I'm the generation before the generation who actually know how to program a video recorder to record something... *;)

Aliexster
10-24-2004, 05:37 PM
Ooh, that's a nice one... M.

And I was thinking about some of this thing, what about the pantheon thing, I just have to wonder, would the Roman Pantheon be the same as the Greek one or like some more imperalistic version of their gods. Because I know there are a couple of things in there that scew slightly from the Greek one, like the founding of Rome and such.

Daveosaurus
10-24-2004, 05:47 PM
I think with the Greek or Roman gods (which I generally just cheat and call "classical to cover both mobs) may as well take whichever form whoever is playing them wants to... it's probably less confusing to have just one Zeus / Jupiter, one Cronos / Uranus, etc., and make the minor differences in character the result of the sort of people who worship them rather than have endless duplication of gods themselves.

I mean, for instance, there's already enough gods of the sea around... having separate entries for Posiedon and Neptune, and separate entries for Tangaroa and Tagaloa... they'd be running out of room under the waves fairly quickly!

Daveosaurus
10-24-2004, 06:03 PM
Dave, click on the little MSN on someone's posts. That will show you their MSN e-mail. Then hit Contacts on your MSN. Add a contact. Click create a new Contact. Copy/paste the e-mail.

Well I think I've managed to get something done. At least there's a name on the MSN window that looks a lot like Meteoro and might actually turn out to be him once he logs on again.

Also tried it with your link to see if it worked again... this time it didn't. Am probably doing something wrong this time that I did right last time or something...

Meteoro
10-24-2004, 09:46 PM
Qwaring: *You don’t have to apologize at all! *:shocked: *In fact, I mentioned the new thread so everyone interested could be involved. *:whaat: *And as it seems, people has really gotten into it ;). *I still have to catch up with what’s been posted over there ;).

Dave: *I normally don’t turn on the MSN at home, with dial connection and all, but now I’m going to add you to it right now. *;)

Joe and anyone: *Well, I never really digged the Roman pantheon since I always found it to be too redundant. *That and the fact that I’m really biased for the Greek pantheon :oops:. *But I can deal with the idea of both being the same. *I hope you don’t mind that I limit myself to the Greek names, though. *Even every now and then I a roman name slips in (just as I did today calling Uranus instead of Cronos :shocked: ).

8) M 8)

Clones of QC#1
10-24-2004, 09:51 PM
Uranus isn't Cronos. Cronos is Greek and his Roman counterpart is Saturn.

And M, maybe you should wait a while to read the other thread. Give the arguing some time to die down.

Meteoro
10-24-2004, 09:56 PM
Uranus isn't Cronos. Cronos is Greek and his Roman counterpart is Saturn.

See? *I'm really messed up with my Roman deities :whaat:


And M, maybe you should wait a while to read the other thread. Give the arguing some time to die down.

Yes, Night just told me over the MSN that it had turned into an argument :(. *I'm going to read the on topic posts and skip the fight. *After all, the subject really interests me. *And don't worry, I won't add a thing to infighting. *Besides, any flaming thread would be deleted tomorrow ;)

8) M 8)

Clones of QC#1
10-24-2004, 09:59 PM
Uranus (Greek) is Chronos' (Greek) father.

Daveosaurus
10-24-2004, 11:05 PM
That will teach me for trying to do this sort of stuff from memory... * :whaat: *Now I've got my Brewer's out and I still can't find out what Uranus' Roman name was... so much for thinking he was the Roman version because the other planets get the Roman names...

Meteoro
10-25-2004, 07:40 AM
Ok, let me see if I have my Greek Mythology in line:

First there was Chaos. *Then Uranus and Geaia (sp?). *Then the Titans. *Then the Olympians.

Am I right?

:mrgreen: M :mrgreen:

Qwaring
10-25-2004, 05:35 PM
Yeah, you're right, M. If you need it you can try http://www.pantheon.org/ for information on the Greek panteon, as well as other pantheons. There are several geneology tables on the site which should be useful.

Meteoro
10-25-2004, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the info, Q. *I’m going to bookmark that address on my computer.

8) M 8)